Finding Success in a Male-Driven Industry

In this episode, Maggie chats with financial attorney, Leslie Tayne, about her experience working in male-dominated industries. If you are currently in such an industry or hope to end up in one eventually, this episode is for you.

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Leslie H. Tayne, Esq. is an award-winning financial attorney and author of the book Life & Debt. She has over 20 years of experience in the consumer and business financial debt solutions arena, which includes negotiations with large international banks and credit agencies for loans, lines of credit, credit cards, and student loans on behalf of clients. Leslie is the founder and managing director of the Tayne Law Group, P.C., a law firm headquartered in Melville dedicated to debt solutions and alternatives to bankruptcy for individuals and businesses. Leslie is frequently sought out for her expertise on financial, credit, and debt topics in the media and as a speaker she regularly provides expert insight into all areas of debt and credit-related financial topics to outlets including the Huffington Post, Yahoo Finance, US News and World Report, MSN, CNN, and CNBC.

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To learn more about Maggie and her coaching and speaking services, visit www.maggiegermano.com.

The theme music is called Escaping Light by Aaron Sprinkle. The podcast artwork design is by Maggie’s dear husband, Dan Rader.

TRANSCRIPTION

Maggie Germano 0:05
Hi, and thanks for listening to the money circle podcast. I’m your host, Maggie Germano, and I’m a feminist and a financial writer, speaker, educator and coach for women. I’m passionate about making personal finance less scary and more approachable so that women can improve their relationship with money and take control of their finances. Every other week, I will interview an amazing, inspiring woman to talk about the issues that impact our money, our health, our independence, and more. We will touch on the societal and structural issues that we need to work together to change and the actions that we each have the power to take in our own lives. If you’d like to learn more about me and the work that I do, visit my website at Maggie germano.com or follow me on Instagram @MaggieGermano. Thanks again for listening and I hope you enjoy.

Hey there, and thanks for listening. I’m your host Maggie Germano. And this week, I’m chatting with Leslie Tayne, who is an award winning financial attorney and author of the book Life and Debt. In this episode, Leslie tells us all about her experience in multiple male dominated industries. She also gives advice to women who are currently in a male dominated industry or those who hope to make a career switch someday, if you are in or plan to be in a male dominated industry and you want to be yourself and succeed. This episode is for you. Enjoy.

Okay, welcome, Leslie, thanks so much for being here today.

Leslie Tayne 1:37
And thank you for having me.

Maggie Germano 1:39
Of course, I’m happy to have you back. So for anyone who doesn’t remember the last episode, or who has never listened before, why don’t you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Leslie Tayne 1:50
Sure. So I’m a financial attorney. My area of practice is super unique. We concentrate in consumer and business debt resolution and alternatives to bankruptcy. So what that means is that we work with individuals, basically consumers and business owners who have anywhere from small businesses to larger businesses, family matters, or otherwise to resolve their debt, like credit card, student loans, business lines of credit, merchant cash advances and things like that.

Maggie Germano 2:22
Great, yeah. And the last episode you did with us, which was all about kind of how to work with an attorney to resolve debt, and when those kinds of options are a good idea. And so I encourage anyone to go back and listen to that episode. It was very, very helpful. But how did you get into this line of work?

Leslie Tayne 2:41
So I’ve been practicing now well, over 20 years, I think I’m getting close to 25 years, I’m dating myself, but I started out really my first my first position after law school was in the criminal field. And I realized quickly that that was not something that was going to be a long term career choice for me. And I ended up taking a position as in House counsel to a national debt company, we’re talking well over 20 years now. And I was really on the cusp on the real cost of the debt settlement, debt consolidation, boom. And I was able to learn kind of from the ground up about the industry. And it was an interesting industry. At the time, it was very dynamic in that it was changing a lot. But through my work there, I realized that there was a gaping hole in the legal world of a law firm that specifically concentrates in this area, trust was becoming an issue, credibility was becoming an issue in the industry, lots of companies were being shut down, consumers were being taken advantage of. And I just said, You know, I think I can take my law practice, and I can grow a business that is dedicated to helping consumers and helping people really get from point A to point B, with a totally different perspective on what it means to not only work with an attorney, but to get the right, what I would call partnership with an attorney to help resolve these kind of issues. Because debt is a very complicated matter. It includes tax issues, legal issues, credit issues, and consumers were really, unfortunately victim many victims of these debt consolidation, debt settlement type of scams. And so I really set out to change the way that not only were lawyers looked at, but the way debt settlement debt consolidation and debt help was really looked at. So that’s how I got my start. And over the last 20 years, things have changed dramatically from the laws changing from policies and practices changing, but I really think that I’ve been super successful and had my mission which was to reshape the concept and the idea. Most people say when they work with me, you know, you’re not the typical lawyer or, you know, I had such a great experience working with you. I just didn’t expect that coming. And I love that that means that I was successful and what I set out to do,

Maggie Germano 5:04
that’s great. And I bet that kind of feedback must make your work even better, where like, you already know that you’re helping people, you already know that you’re filling this hole that you saw in the financial industry of like providing those legal services. But having people say, like, Oh, my God, I thought this was gonna be so much worse, that must be even better for you to hear from people

Leslie Tayne 5:26
it is, and I often hear it on the on the early end. So right when I first speak with potential clients, they say, I feel so much better speaking to you, I wish I had met you sooner. And I didn’t even realize this was out there. And so early on just the conversation alone puts my potential clients at ease at what to expect. And they, it’s a totally different dynamics. So I feel like I’ve actually, I have accomplished what I set out to do, I continue to do that, of course. But with that said, it does motivate me and fulfills me a lot in my career.

Maggie Germano 6:03
That’s great. So it’s a nice, it’s a double double benefit that you’re getting there. So when we first connected about doing this episode, we talked about, you know, what it’s like for a woman entering an industry that’s traditionally male dominated. And so when, when a lot of people talk about finance, in particular, we kind of think about it, you know, it’s historically been very male driven, male, led, which obviously, ends up giving a lot of information and advice that doesn’t always work for everybody. And a lot of people haven’t always felt trusting kind of moving into that industry or, or taking advice from people on their finances. So what was it like for you kind of entering into this realm, especially having, you know, you went to law school, you started in a different field of law, and then you shifted into this, what was it like kind of starting your career off as a woman in this industry.

Leslie Tayne 7:03
So when I started my career 25 years ago, the perspective of women and men in the in the legal industry was very skewed, men still dominated the legal industry, the partners were almost all males, the heads of companies were all males. And I had traditionally I only worked for males, over the years, when I was in law school, in all the different internships that I did. So to say that I was very used to being in a male dominated society would be accurate, and that I was used to it, it existed. And they were just norms and norms that today are stereotypes, but they were norms back then. So it was, you know, a world that you really needed to you needed to know how to play with the boys in order to to really understand if you were going to have a career path. And I can tell you some examples of challenges that I had, like, when I when I was pregnant with my twins, and I was in-house Counsel, I was so embarrassed to tell my bosses, we were both males. And I went to them and I said, you know, I’m pregnant. And I’ve been I promise, I’m gonna work until the end, and I’m gonna come right back, I’m not going to take any time off, I was worried they would let me go or they would fire me or that I would be looked at differently. And that was super challenging. When I look back, it’s it’s really sad, actually. But I was worried about it. And I worked until I was 40 weeks pregnant with my twins. I worked on that I gave birth and worked on a Friday and I had them on a Tuesday. And I’ve worked on a Friday and I was so gigantic that my husband at the time had to drive me and couldn’t even drive the car because I was so big with my twins. And then I only took two weeks off. I said I’m going to come back right away. And even though I have a C section and preeclampsia all kinds of complications, and I have now three babies at home, I said I’m going to come back right away. And I actually started working from home a little bit a week after the kids were born. And this is all because in that male dominated society of the of not only my, the corporation that I worked for, but my perception that I was going to have all these challenges, you know, as a result, and I and I didn’t want to have that because back then, you know, women were looked at like, well, how long are we going to get out of her because she gets married, she’s young, she gets married she’s gonna have children leave so you’re not really looked at at the time you weren’t really looked at as very valuable because you only had he had a shelf life until you were gonna want to stay home and be a mommy. So I really didn’t want my bosses to think that way because I didn’t want to be replaced I needed to work. And you know, as time went on, you know, I started my own practice. So I I got away from that. internal issues in my own practice, but my industry was very male dominated the collection world. Certainly my adversaries in the collection world where I spent a lot of time We’re all male. in that industry, the debt buyers, the debt business was all families and almost all males were really very, very few women around. And it was a wild industry. And they really looked at women not in a professional way. Women were, you know, again, it’s a different time. And so I don’t fault anybody for those thought processes. I certainly don’t feel angry, and I don’t feel resentful. It’s the way that things were just the fact. But I remember one time I was meeting with a male counsel, won’t accompany and I went in to meet with him, his brother, who ran the company and his father. And the father was an older man in his 70s at the time patted me on the head. I was like, Are you kidding me? Like, it was so demeaning. And I just remember feeling that there’s no way like, they would ever do that to a man. And pushing forward. You know, when I had my own practice, I thought that I needed a male partner. So my first client, when I went out on my own, I had a partner who was a male, because I really believed that I needed a male to help get me through and get me into the to that male dominated world. So and all that might seem sad to those who are listening to this, because it’s really foreign to what you experienced today. But that’s the way it was. And while it was challenging, it just existed, it just was a matter of fact. And it took a lot of time, what really changed is it wasn’t just so much me, although my goal really was to be as professional as possible. So I did not give any mail, any rule or ounce of anything other than professionalism. I dressed professionally, I acted professionally, I kept the conversations professional, regardless of whether they kept the conversation or if the conversation became what would be considered today inappropriate. But whether the conversation veered off in any other direction, regardless, my my commentary and my responses, and I was a single woman throughout this, I got divorced, when my kids were five, and seven. So I was a single woman as all these things were happening. So I though, stayed very true to myself and remain very professional. What, what really changed was, the the world changed. And the perception of treating women differently in the industry changed, these older people. aged out, older people were becoming more open minded and accepting and receptive to the women as equals. And the world sort of changed today. If there’s an old timer around, you might still get some, some still inappropriate comments here and there. But you know, but it’s preface it’s interesting, because today, it’s prefaced with the hope this doesn’t offend you, or I don’t mean this, I don’t mean anything by this, don’t take it anyway. But it’s sort of like the wind up before they’re gonna make an inappropriate comment. And it’s not necessarily a sexually inappropriate comments at all. It’s just an inappropriate comment in in terms of, you know, a work related environment. But these days, My office is, I run my office. So that type of behavior would never ever exist here. And in the world that I now live in, professionally, that really doesn’t go on anymore. And that’s because the world changed and shifted, that it became not politically correct, that people were being sued over inappropriate behavior and comments, and there is now much more compliance with sexual harassment, training, and appropriateness. And again, the next generations are being trained completely differently. They’re being trained that women and men are equal in the workplace, and that there are female bosses, there’s a lot more females that have risen to the top, and females on boards and a lot more diversity from that perspective. So that sort of male dominated world is changing a lot on the professional and it’s still unfortunate that women who still have those experiences of discriminatory behavior and conduct and commentary in work related environments these days again, I think that you can, you can you can you can call it stupidity. But I think when you look at who does that, it’s, you’ll generally find somebody who was schooled from a different age, so a different generation of employees and, and the such that would behave like that, but it’s certainly things have changed a lot. And I can probably give you another half a dozen stories about how I was treated, mistreated as a female, but the reality is when I talk to My female colleagues my age, it was just the way it was. And we accepted it. It didn’t make it right. We accepted it, we rolled with it, we dealt with it, a colleague of mine was telling me a story that some she was going to a conference and sitting on a panel and somebody else attending the conference called her up and said, Why don’t we go up the night before we could spend the night together? And she was like, I’m happily married, you know? And, you know, please don’t, she cut it off and said, Please don’t have any such expectation whatsoever. But I think what happens in these male dominant environments, it’s very intimidating, especially when it’s a group of males that might be behaving that way. And unfortunately, women, especially when you’re lower down, and you are, you’re either new in the company, you’re new in the environment, your career hasn’t taken off, you feel somewhat challenged, as far as what to do about how to handle those situations. It’s unfortunate.

Maggie Germano 16:02
Yeah, no, I totally agree. Especially if it’s all around you, if you’re in a we’re a woman who’s in an industry that’s mostly male, even if there are, you know, a few other women in the company, it can be tough to kind of get the support or ask for support as you need it. And even though things have changed a lot, I think, in society, and in the work world, I still do hear people talking about their fears related to like, you mentioned the example of having kids and working through their pregnancy. And I mean, I just had my first child three months ago, and I can’t imagine having to go back to work. After two weeks, I also had a C section. So it was like, I could barely walk after two weeks. And so, um, you know, and then just adjusting to being a parent, and you were saying you already had a child at home too.

Leslie Tayne 16:57
that’s it. And then I had twins. So I had a two and a half year old and newborns. And I had had that C section. I had preeclampsia after I delivered. So I was like you for a while. Second c section better than the first for sure. So I was up and walking. But I my job, my focus my career, I was so worried about that.

Maggie Germano 17:17
Yeah, and it’s a it’s so sad to put your health potentially at risk. Because you’re worried about your career, because there is that unfairness, and that expectation, and that, you know, that worry of being replaced. And just that how worrying about how you’re going to be viewed. So when you’re talking to perhaps, you know, other women who are attorneys, are they want to get into the finance industry? Or, you know, both? What kind of advice do you give them when it comes to potentially starting a family or just generally wanting to move up within a male dominated industry.

Leslie Tayne 17:56
So what I tell what I tell women who want to kind of get into what what’s really considered a male dominated industry is that fertile women, so my daughter is graduating from college as a civil engineer. And so it’s somewhat of a somewhat, the engineering and construction industry somewhat male dominated, she has no thought in her mind that there could be any potential inequality. So it’s interesting, the thought process of the the next generation coming out and going into careers, she wouldn’t even think that that would could be a remote possibility that there could be inequality like that. But and I say that I use that because it’s the, you know, when you’re, when they’re thinking about it, you know, they have to be receptive to understanding that there are these stereotypes that still exist in certain industries. So being aware of it is really the first step and noticing that there may be changes, and really helping yourself, be focused on how you can be professional, maintain your professionalism. And just be aware that these things are happening. Because I think that when it becomes when things become the norm, the ceiling drops down. And as the ceiling drops down, you’re more willing to tolerate certain things. And when you’re more willing to tolerate certain things, you become less aware of them. So if you could become just notice it, what’s happening and what’s going on around you. And continue to maintain the professionalism in your career in your environment. And if there are some challenges, it will depend on the type of organization that you work for. Not every organization is going to be as receptive and easy to have those kinds of discussions. So I wouldn’t discourage somebody from being in that role or taking that on. You could be the change in that industry too. But know that it is a little bit of an uphill battle that there are some days that are not going to feel as good as other days. And it may be frustrating for sure. But with that said, It’s not that I would discourage somebody from doing it, it’s just that, be aware of it. And know that, you know, it might, it might be part of the career path that you take. And even though you should never definitely never tolerate inappropriate behavior, I would never make that suggestion. And I’m certainly not at this point, saying that, even though you’re in a male dominated industry that these things go on, they go on, but you could be the change, you could set the standard and, and make that make a change, depending on what’s happening. But again, in order to do that, you really have to be aware of the of what’s going on around you. And I’m not suggesting either to be super sensitive about it, where you feel like you need to go to HR make complaints on a regular basis, but gaining the level of professionalism from your colleagues is important and not tolerating bad behavior, you know, setting boundaries very carefully, and not, not creating opportunities for those to take advantage. And by that, I mean, not just the way you dress, but the way you act and the things that you say, you know, if you sit there, and you’re going to laugh and go along with, you know, a poor sense of humor, then there may be a little bit of an acquiescence to it. And I could certainly say, No, while I appreciate this outside the work, you know, I don’t find this particular line of discussion comfortable for me is there, can we change the subject, you know, again, be the change, find an opportunity to help yourself through it, if it becomes challenging, not all male dominated industries are inappropriate, they’re just male dominated, and that’s okay. You know, for me, I thrive in male dominated environments. In fact, for me, I know that sounds strange, but some people might feel more comfortable in a male dominated environment, they just do. And I always got along really well with males, and I felt it, you know, if I was choosing males or females, in terms of socializing, I would, I was very, very comfortable in both groups. So for for you, as the person who is looking to be in those industries, you might feel super comfortable in that environment, and you might really, really thrive in it. And that’s fantastic. But being able to adapt, and being able to be aware, is important, and setting the standard and for change as well. So advocating for yourself, and, and certainly, you know, not allowing yourself to be taken advantage of in any way so that you can thrive in that environment.

Maggie Germano 22:42
Yeah, I think I think the point about making sure to stand up for yourself and not just kind of quietly accept the behavior, because I think a lot of bad behavior, whether it’s in the workplace or elsewhere, tends to thrive, because people aren’t really saying anything. So it’s kind of assumed that it’s okay. And the more and more people that are speaking up, whether you’re a woman or a man, you know, speaking up when you hear things that are inappropriate, I think is really important. But I can also see how that could be really draining, and frustrating. So what kind of advice would you give to someone who they really love the industry they’re in, they’re really trying to move forward in their careers, they don’t want to leave this industry that maybe some of that behavior exists in. But how can they stay kind of motivated, while also fighting that other uphill battle along the way.

Leslie Tayne 23:37
So I think you have to look at the big picture and your long term goals, and decide if it’s the right environment, you can be in a male dominated industry, maybe you’re just working for the wrong employer. And that needs to change. And I and I get it sometimes changing jobs isn’t that easy. And you might actually really like and or love what you’re doing, you just find that the environment is tough. But again, if you just sit there and you go along with it, then they’re going to think you think it’s okay, so you don’t want to just sit and act Yes, you can make comments that are appropriate to your colleagues telling them that you don’t feel comfortable with the topics and you don’t feel comfortable with, with how things would be going and ask them to switch the conversation. I think communication is really important, appropriate communication to say, Hey, you know, we had this conversation the other day, and I wanted to bring it to your attention that I didn’t feel comfortable. And I like to bring it to your attention. So that going forward if topics should come up again, that that we either change the topic or we don’t go forward with that because it made me feel uncomfortable. I think communication with your co workers, if somebody says to you, oh, you know, we were just kidding. You’re being too sensitive, say I understand, and I have a level of sensitivity. I wanted to bring this to your attention and I really appreciate you listening to me. So, you know, again, you have to advocate for yourself and stand up for yourself. It’s not it’s not going to be easy that I’m definitely going to tell you it’s definitely not an easy position to take but keeping your eye on On the ball, deciding what’s in your best interest, what works for you, and understanding that you’re in certain environments, that it might come with the territory, whether it’s right or it’s wrong, or you could do something about it or not, it might come with the territory. And again, I’m not advocating for that to be okay. But be aware, be aware that it might happen. And be prepared to do something about it and decide what level you’re at what point you’re willing to tolerate it or not. But I think communication is really important, talk about it and get it out there and find out about the policies also for the company that you work for that I think that’s important when taking a position in a male dominated environment, what are the policies that they have in place for sexual harassment, training and equality?

Maggie Germano 25:48
That’s a really good point, too. I mean, I think a lot of people maybe don’t know that there are protections in place, or that there are trainings and certain policies that people need to be adhering to. And so there is kind of backup support, whether it’s from HR or from the employee handbook, where you know, maybe the person making an appropriate comments, or maybe the person that Pat’s your head in meetings, isn’t aware of that. But but because that’s in place, there is hopefully going to be other people working in the organization who will support you, if that’s happening, I think that’s really good advice.

Leslie Tayne 26:23
Right. And I think that’s important is that, you know, you’re in the right place, when you are in a supported environment. Not every environment is going to be supporting, it’s just isn’t it just, it isn’t all companies are run all differently, and they have different cultures. And, you know, for you, as an individual, what works for me, my comfort level is going to be different than what works for somebody else. So it’s when you’re young, and you’re just starting out, you may not know, oh, what environment you like, and you don’t like, and you might not have a lot of work history or experience where you understand the differences between different environments. So you know, you might be in a place where one thing happens, and you get to another place, and it’s a totally different culture. So I’m not suggesting bouncing around either, because that’s not necessarily good for you’re certainly not great for your resume, and your job history. But it’s something to consider. If you try something out for a year to two years, and you feel like it’s not a good cultural fit for you. But again, you might find that the industry that you chose that there is consistency in that culture across the board. But every environment is different, every office is run differently. And it’s not just the policies that are in place, it’s the people who are enforcing those policies as the people who create those policies that ends up being held being something that impacts you. So it’s it’s a lot to think about. It’s definitely overwhelming. And I could see how one would feel because again, when I was young, I didn’t know what to say, I didn’t know what to do. And I didn’t know how to really handle it. I just learned how to handle myself. What what I was willing to tolerate, not do I wish I think about that pat on the head and wish I could stand up and stick my hand out and say, you know, and basically stick my hand up, but it was so shocking, that it happened. I think that’s what happens that you are so shocked by the behavior or comments or whatever it is that you are stuck in the moment of did that just happen? So be aware, I think, looking back, I could say that if I was a little more aware that might happen? How would I respond to it, and it’s something to think about, if you walk into, you know, male dominated environment, what to expect. But again, it depends on your industry, you know, if you are in at a law firm, or an accounting firm, or in a financial firm, you are gonna have a different experience than you might have in a school environment. If you’re a teacher, and you might have a different environment, certainly if you work for the government and government offices. So again, it’s a it will change depending on where you’re at.

Maggie Germano 29:01
I agree. And that’s why I think it’s so important for people to when they’re interviewing for jobs, or when they’re choosing organizations and companies to apply to that you’re also interviewing them and you’re interviewing their culture, you’re figuring out is this a good fit for you, not just that you’re a good fit for them. And I think that that often gets lost when people are talking about the job search or when people are stressing about interviewing. It’s not just about you proving yourself to them, but it’s about them proving themselves to you and making sure that where you end up working is going to be right for you not only for your career long term, but also for your mental health and your happiness overall. I mean, we spend so much time at work as it is we don’t want to be suffering more than necessary. So I think your point about making sure the culture is a good fit is a really important one.

Leslie Tayne 29:53
Totally and you may not even know what that is honestly until you get there. You have no idea. You can guess About what it might be, but you really don’t know until you work there, because there’s different departments and different people and personalities. And you really may not even know until you actually there and experience it. And you know what one culture, you might think what you want, but you might find a different one works better, and that culture can shift while you’re there, too, just by changing supervisors.

Maggie Germano 30:23
Yeah, I’ve definitely had that experience where I was much happier with one boss versus another at the same organization in the same department. So yeah, anything can kind of change. So I think, just being aware of that, and and I liked what you were saying of, you know, how you were able to control your own behavior, your own presentation at work? And so getting clear on like, what are the things that you can control yourselves, whether it’s your behavior? Or, you know, what kind of positions you’re going for, what kinds of organizations you’re applying for, but kind of identifying what are the actual things I have control over? Because there’s so much we don’t have control over and that can be really frustrating. But, yeah, I think that, that identifying that and then, like you said, keeping your eye on the ball of like, what is this end goal for my career? And what are the strategic steps I need to be taking? Like, what do I need to put up with for a period of time? Within reason? Yeah, to get to where I want to be?

Leslie Tayne 31:23
Yes, 100%. And sometimes, you know, you have to, when you’re growing your career, you have to put up with stuff, you’re on the low end, and you have to take a lot, and that’s okay. And I tell that to my own children, that when you have to understand you are you have to work your way up to certain levels of respect, and you have to work your way up to certain levels of expectation. So the the part where you’re mistreated, becomes subjective. The question is, how are you being mistreated? are they calling you names or commenting about what you’re wearing? Or your body type? That’s absolutely inappropriate. I mean, there’s, there’s just a line there, you know, joking around about, you know, what, you know, or giving you a lot of work are having an expectation that you stay late is not being mistreated. That’s, that’s called putting your time in. So I think that’s where that understanding has to come in to these environments that, you know, if you’re expected to work late at night, that’s not mistreatment, that’s an expectation of that culture of that place. If you are expected to, you know, wear certain clothes, then it’s not even, that’s, there’s nothing wrong with that. And we have, we have dress codes in my office, too. So it’s, it’s when somebody makes an inappropriate comment to you that makes you feel uncomfortable as a person inside. And that’s when you have to decide, okay, gee, that didn’t feel so good. I wonder, why didn’t that feel good? What was that about it? Was it professional unprofessional? It’s not about when it becomes not about your job and your work and your contribution to the team as a whole, then that’s something to look at. And again, you know, the hiring process is important to know, because that hiring process not only hires you but hired the other people that you’re working with.

Maggie Germano 33:10
Yeah, that’s a really good point, too. So is there anything else that you haven’t mentioned that you would say to a woman who’s either currently in a male dominated industry or who’s thinking of pivoting to a different industry, who, you know, they want to make sure that they’re doing what they can to succeed, while also protecting themselves? What any other advice you haven’t mentioned?

Leslie Tayne 33:32
No, I don’t think so. I mean, do your best work, show up every day, do your best work. And I think that’s, that’s where you’re, you’ll be respected, you do your best work there. You’re there to work there to be a part of a team and you’re there to make a difference. For whatever that’s worth. And I think that’s really important to think about, you know, that you’re doing what you’re doing best.

Maggie Germano 33:59
Yeah, I think that’s great advice. So how can folks get in touch with you if they’re interested in learning more about what you do or if they’re interested in hiring you?

Leslie Tayne 34:09
So you can certainly visit our website at taynelaw.com. And of course, we’re all over social media, Twitter @leslietayneesq, Instagram @TayneLawGroup. And those are all great ways to find me. And certainly on our using call me directly at 866-890-7337. But of course, like I said, you can just put my name into a search engine, and I’ll come up and you’ll be able to find the firm, myself, and all our social media handles.

Maggie Germano 34:41
Great. And I will link all that in the show notes as well, so people have easy access to you. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come on and chat about this. I know this is a topic that a lot of women especially folks listening to this show are probably thinking about on a given you know, daily basis. So I really appreciate you giving your advice and your experience.

Leslie Tayne 35:02
Oh, my pleasure, I’m happy to do so I think it’s something that we should definitely not shun women’s experiences in the workplace and understand that we have come a really long way from where things were just 20 years ago. And, and it’s, it’s that and then 20 years from now we’ll be having a totally different discussion about what was now and what is then. So remember that things do change.

Maggie Germano 35:25
Yep. Yeah, we just got to keep pushing and getting ourselves into those industries, even if men are the ones kind of taking it over for now. We can always change it in the future.

Leslie Tayne 35:37
Yep. Don’t be intimidated at all. But when they do your best doesn’t matter. You just go in there. Show them that you could do it.

Maggie Germano 35:44
Great. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Leslie Tayne 35:47
Thank you. It’s so nice to see you again.

Maggie Germano 35:49
You too.

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