How to Avoid Lifestyle Creep As Your Income Goes Up
This week, Maggie is chatting with Cris Caruso, who is a financial advisor with Alcumus Financial Group. In this episode, they talk about what lifestyle creep is and how you can avoid falling into it as you earn more over the course of your life.
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Cris Caruso (she/her) is a financial advisor with Alcumus Financial Group. She has 16 years of experience, and she typically provides financial planning and asset management for Gen X women and the LGBT community. Cris’ personalized and mindful approach helps her clients attain their goals while avoiding the pitfalls that often hinder meaningful financial success. Her experience allows her to be the coach, counselor, and mentor you deserve on your money journey.
Cris lives in Laurel, MD with her spouse, and during the pandemic she has tackled most of her “to read” pile, nurtured a gorgeous sourdough starter and finally found an at home yoga practice.
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To join the Money Circle Community, visit www.maggiegermano.com/moneycircle.
To learn more about Maggie and her coaching and speaking services, visit www.maggiegermano.com.
The theme music is called Escaping Light by Aaron Sprinkle. The podcast artwork design is by Maggie’s dear husband, Dan Rader.
TRANSCRIPTION
Maggie Germano 0:08
Thanks for listening to the money circle podcast. I’m your host, Maggie Germano and I’m a financial coach for women. I’m passionate about helping women improve their relationships with money so that they can take better control of their futures. Part of that journey is making personal finance education more accessible and less judgmental, which is why this podcast exists. Each week, we’ll discuss a new financial topic to help you explore how you can make a difference in your own financial life, or in society as a whole.
I’m currently on maternity leave until April, but there are still ways for you to get support from me while you’re on your financial journey. If you’re interested in diving deeper into issues like income inequality, debt or money, shame, check out my new money circle community. In this safe feminist space women gathered to talk about money without fear of being judged or shamed. We break down shame and build community and safety for everyone so that you can find the support you need to gain control over your finances. Visit Maggie germano.com slash money circle to learn more and to join the community today. I can’t wait to see you there.
Hey there, and thanks for listening. I’m your host Maggie Germano. And this week, I’m chatting with Chris Caruso, who is a financial advisor with Alcumus Financial Group. In this episode, we talk about what lifestyle creep is, and how you can avoid falling into it as you earn more money over the course of your life. If you want to be thoughtful about how you use your money throughout the course of your life and career, this episode is for you. Enjoy.
Okay, welcome, Chris. Thanks so much for being here today.
Cris Caruso 1:48
Thanks for having me.
Maggie Germano 1:50
So you were one of my very first guests on the money circle when I launched last year. But in case folks don’t remember that far back, or they haven’t listened yet. Like tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.
Cris Caruso 2:04
Yeah, so I am a financial advisor. I work with a team of groups called alcumus Financial Group. We’re based in DC in Silver Spring, Maryland. But you know, the core of what we do is personalized and individuals individualized financial planning, investment management, and ongoing relationships and advice with our clients around money.
Maggie Germano 2:31
That’s great. You know, I’m a fan of that. And how tell us how you got into this work. I know from when you’ve we’ve talked about this before, it’s kind of a winding road. So yeah, share that with our listeners.
Cris Caruso 2:44
It is a little bit of a winding road. So my education and my background is in education. So I went to school to be a teacher and I decided that I wasn’t quite the right fit for me. So I worked in the nonprofit sector for a while but really still had education and teaching at sort of my core superpower of what I believe in. And in doing work with nonprofits, I really aligned myself with educating women. And so when I have this opportunity to join, right, the practice I’m with now 16 years ago, I found a really nice place to be in where so much of what I do is still aligned with education. And I’ve built and developed this practice that specifically targets women, and financial education and financial empowerment for women and their families in their households.
Maggie Germano 3:44
That’s great. And I always love to hear how people they find a career that’s different from what they initially thought they would do. But it’s still related, it like weaves into what their initial passion was in one way or another.
Cris Caruso 3:58
Yeah, because I’ve always had an interest in personal finance. I was a client. I wasn’t Ameriprise client. So I had an advisor. So I understood the value of that relationship and understood what I got out of that relationship. And then as I watched the people in my practice, and I watched how this business ran, like, Oh, yeah, this is this is a good fit for me.
Maggie Germano 4:22
Yeah. That’s great. And so related to that, tell us a little bit about what you typically work on with your clients. You know, you mentioned investment management, but it also sounds like you know, you are having those ongoing conversations and giving advice. So tell us a little bit more about what that relationship kind of looks like.
Cris Caruso 4:40
Yeah, so I do comprehensive individualized financial planning. And that is everything from cash flow and net worth analysis to goal achievement, and even in some cases like development of those goals and then helping Clients put systems in place to reach those goals, getting some clarity on them. Anything from retirement, college planning, buying a first house buying a second house, you know, there’s so many things that we want to do with our money. And my objective is to help people make smart, confident decisions about their money, so they can reach those goals, whatever they look like. I’m not a CPA, but I do look at tax strategies, and I partner with people CPAs to help navigate the world of taxes. And then I look at things with a lens for risk management. So where do you have exposure? In terms of maybe having enough cash on hand in terms of life insurance, disability insurance, other types of life insurance, you pay too much? Are you over covered? Are you under covered, really doing a deep dive on people’s finances and their financial status and helping them improve that and be confident about the decisions they’ve made?
Maggie Germano 6:07
I love that. I think the confidence is a huge piece. I know that that is what I’ve seen in my own work of like, the better you feel about the decisions you’re making, the better you’ll feel about life generally. Yeah. And, and having another person, a third party who’s maybe, you know, a little bit removed to definitely emotionally removed from the situation can be really helpful in getting that insight.
Cris Caruso 6:30
Yeah. And I find that specifically in working with women, we don’t trust ourselves, when we’re making decisions about money, I’m sure you see that. We either think we don’t know, we’re often very busy. We’re running businesses, we have jobs, we’re running families, maybe we’re managing up and down with families, like parents and kids. And so we don’t always trust that we have the time, or the knowledge, or, you know, there’s some of this residual like, stuff that we were taught, you know, from other people a long time ago, that money’s hard, and investing is hard. And so people often want a partner with that in making those decisions. And that is the biggest part of what I do. I also really proud of the fact that we give our clients information so that they can then use facts to make the emotional and heart based decisions that they need to make. Um, and I think that resonates a lot with women. Um, so yeah,
Maggie Germano 7:36
yeah, I totally agree. And I love how you just frame that around, like, giving them the facts, giving them the information so that they can then make the decisions that maybe are a little bit more emotional, maybe are a little bit more values based, or, you know, goal based. And so you’re not there to say like, this is exactly what you need to do. I’m the experts like here, here’s what you need to know. And then like that will help you make the decision from there.
Cris Caruso 8:03
Yeah, exactly. Great. Yeah.
Maggie Germano 8:06
So when we first connected about this episode, we’re talking about lifestyle creep. And you know what that kind of means and how people can avoid it. So before we dig into the actual advice, why don’t you tell us a little bit about like, what is lifestyle creep? I’m sure a lot of people have never heard of that before.
Cris Caruso 8:26
Yeah, I like I use two analogies to think about lifestyle creep. And the first one is it’s, it’s your own households version of inflation. But then the second one is that a goldfish will grow as big as the container that you put it in. So if you have a goldfish on a bowl on your desk, it’s only going to grow relative to the size of the container that it’s in. But if you keep putting it in a larger container, the fish will continue to get larger. And the same thing happens over time with our incomes. And if we are not aware of that, and being mindful about that our lifestyle can grow to be the same size as whatever paycheck we’re earning. And so that’s where this idea of lifestyle creep comes in. That you can look back over and it’s often something we don’t recognize until we are well in it, but that you can look back over where you came from. And over a 135 10 year period and things that used to be luxuries, or things that used to feel really unattainable, now are necessities. So maybe that’s luxury vacations, maybe it’s spendy self care, cosmetic, procedures, products. Maybe it’s a bigger house, maybe it’s a fancier car. It isn’t necessarily all of those things. But the lifestyle that you grow into, all of a sudden feels like you can’t cut back on, because you’ve grown into this new paycheck or this new wave that you’re accustomed to living.
Maggie Germano 10:24
Right? And like you said, you might not even realize it’s happening until you’re so deep into it that you can’t imagine living any differently. Yeah, yeah. And I’ve heard that from clients to where they’re like, you know, I used to make $30,000 a year, and I could live on that, like, they struggled, and it was difficult, but they could live on it. And they always thought like, all I need to do is earn more money, and I’ll have more money, I’ll be able to save more, I’ll be able to pay more debt. And then they get into a situation where they’re making so much more than they did before. But now they have more credit card debt, now, they’re more stressed about their bills, and they have less money necessarily, you know, to show for it in in savings. And that’s something that people a lot of people get really, really stressed about.
Cris Caruso 11:10
Yeah, it is. And I think, you know, to your point, there’s a level of lifestyle that we can strive for, to say, you know, I’m only making $30,000 a year, and cash flow feels hard, and I’m making it and I’m surviving. But you know, we don’t really live in the safest apartment, or I don’t live in, you know, a neighborhood where that’s convenient to where I work. And there’s other costs related to that. So there’s a difference between working for a lifestyle that you want. And that suits you, and sliding into something that you’re not really paying attention to. So you think about like when I was working in nonprofits, and when I was making that $30,000 a year, that isn’t the life I wanted permanently for myself. But as we grow, we just have to be mindful that we’re not accidentally sliding into a life that we don’t want for ourselves.
Maggie Germano 12:11
Yeah, I think that’s a really good point. And I think, you know, I want to build on how it’s not inherently bad to be earning more money and spending more money. Like, of course, as you’re earning more and moving up in your career, the ideas that you can then start affording different things that you really want to achieve, whether it’s a home or something else, like whatever it might be, it might be that amazing car. So it’s not inherently bad to be spending more. And obviously, it’s often unavoidable if your life is changing with like having kids and things like that. But yeah, exactly. Like you said, making sure it’s not mindless kind of inflation, like you said, and and being even more stressed and strapped for cash as you go on.
Cris Caruso 12:59
If you’re always trying to keep up with the Joneses, or this appearance of what other people have, and that you think you want, that it’s easy, no matter how much money you make, to never have enough.
Maggie Germano 13:12
Exactly, yeah. Which I think is surprising for a lot of people to hear. Yeah, um, and so how, how do you kind of see lifestyle creep showing up in the lives of your clients? And how does that sort of fit in to the work that you do with them?
Cris Caruso 13:28
Yeah, so one of the things that I do is, I’ve done some additional training and learning on behavioral advice and the psychological process of how our brain works around money. And incorporating a lot of mindfulness to money and really asking my clients to categorize their expense a track their expenses, and I know you talk about this all the time, know what comes in and know what goes out, no matter how much money you make, because it’s easy to say I have enough. And so I don’t need to track anymore. Like I don’t need I have enough I have money left over at the end of the month. It doesn’t matter where my money goes, and some that it does, if you’re not spending in line with your values and how you want to be spending your money. So I often ask folks to even if it’s just for a 90 day period, take a look at where you’re spending your money and see how that makes you feel. And if you feel badly or embarrassed or ashamed about any of those transactions, that those are ones definitely to shine some light on and sit with and see how you why you feel that way. Um, and then I also say that I should be able to look at that list and tell you what your values are and tell you what’s most important to you. And if I say you know health and nutrition are important to you because you spend a lot on groceries and a personal trainer and a gym and you look at me and tell me more Not really, then there’s a misalignment there. And that that is perhaps keeping up with a lifestyle that maybe isn’t something you value. So staying in line with your values is one way to avoid that creep. I’m spending modestly on most things. But then absolutely, when your budget allows it, spend wildly on the things that make you happiest. But you can’t do that with everything, like we can do anything. We just can’t do everything.
Maggie Germano 15:32
And I think that’s such an important takeaway. And I try to tell my clients that as well, that it’s like, you know, the things that you love the most, the things that you care about the most, like, if you have the money, spend as much money on that as you want. But when there are things that you don’t care about as much, or that just are not as important, those are the areas to be more thoughtful about of, you know, reducing your spending or, you know, whatever might need to happen, just canceling certain things, you know, if you don’t actually like working out with a trainer, don’t pay for a trainer. But and that can be hard for people to, to kind of think about and align in their own brains of like, oh, but if I’m spending a lot of money on anything like that must be bad. Like, that’s what I hear from some people sometimes, like one of my clients recently asked me, you know, how, how much should I be spending on groceries? And how can I start cutting back? And I was like, Well, do you want to be spending less on groceries, and she started talking about how much she loves cooking. And she actually loves to go even going, just going to the grocery store and buying really healthy food and trying new interesting things. I’m like, Well, why do you have to cut back on that, that like, if that’s something that makes you feel good and makes you happy? You know, you’re we’re stuck in quarantine. So like, why not enjoy the food that you’re having. And I think just sometimes people need permission to think about it differently in that way of being able to really narrow it in on their their values.
Cris Caruso 17:03
Yeah. And I feel like because you’re spending, you know, big in one particular area, it might mean that she’s also not eating takeout, or dining out. And I feel like especially in the pandemic right now. Our expenses are weird, anyway, compared to where they typically are. So you think there’s two things, I think we have to be mindful that. Because we’re maybe seeing money just building up in our checking accounts, because we’re not that that doesn’t allow us to just mindfully spend in other places, just because we’re bored. It’s a great opportunity to sort of look at where you’re spending. And then as we start to open back up again to the world, bringing that mindfulness back to what do I want to add in? What do I want to allow back into my spending? As we start to do that a little more?
Maggie Germano 18:00
Yeah. So instead of just going back to how things were before the pandemic, yes, still being thoughtful of like, what changed while I was stuck inside and isolated? And what what was positive about that? How did my finances kind of change about that? And what did I realize I actually value more, because I know for me, this pandemic, put a lot of things in perspective for me in different ways. And I’m sure that that’s happened for a lot of people.
Cris Caruso 18:30
It has and when I was talking to people in like March and April, they were feeling like they had cash. And then when it became apparent that we weren’t going anywhere, people started putting time and energy and money into their homes, whether to set up one or two, or from home offices, school zones, like they started to sort of rethink that and use that money differently. But then I’ve also noticed, people telling me, especially as we move into the holidays, you know, that they’re back to sort of spending a little bit more online shopping. So I just have been encouraging folks to just be mindful.
Maggie Germano 19:08
Yeah. And related to that. How have you kind of seen, you know, not just during the pandemic, but generally with working with your clients? How have you seen lifestyle creep negatively affect people’s lives and finances?
Cris Caruso 19:23
Yeah, I mean, I think it goes back to that keeping up of what we were talking about before that it’s easy to grow as big as whatever paycheck you have. And then even to some extent counting on future earnings, that maybe haven’t arrived yet to say, okay, you know, I’m on this path, I’m on this trajectory in my career. And I should get another promotion in two years or five years or this is like what I think my life is going to look like and so I’m going to buy this Today, knowing that it’s a little tight now, but that eventually, I’ll be able to, it’ll be comfortable. And then if that comfort never comes, that’s a dangerous place to be. And I see that happen. Not so much with people who work with me, but I hear about it a lot. And that’s specifically as an example, where I think, you know, sometimes maybe our parents will tell us that, oh, you know, when you’re young, and you’re just starting out, you won’t always be making this money. And so we’re counting on that future creep. We’re counting on that inflation of our incomes. And if it doesn’t ever happen, you’re really stuck in an uncomfortable situation, whether you make a different career change, whether you know, whatever. counting on that money before, it’s there is definitely dangerous.
Maggie Germano 20:56
Yeah, that sounds scary to me, for sure. And because it could get you in a place where like, you end up having to move or you just like, can’t afford your mortgage at all. And I know, I’ve seen that with clients of mine to where, you know, there was there was a moment where they were comfortable. But then something else happened. And they had inflated their expenses just a little too much. And it makes people not only is it financially scary, but it can make people feel like failures and add this extra layer of shame and frustration and embarrassment, which then can follow you for years.
Cris Caruso 21:37
Yeah. Yep. And if it’s around something like a home, or you know that it’s hard to unwind, like, it isn’t just a quick like, Oh, my golly, you know, if you rent a bigger apartment than you need the answers a little easier. If you rent out, buy a home that’s bigger than you can manage. There’s a lot of long term implications and that it isn’t always easy to unwind.
Maggie Germano 21:59
Right, it’s it’s definitely harder to sell a house than it is to move apartments.
Cris Caruso 22:04
Yeah. Not to mention all the other emotional stuff that goes with that of potentially having a lot of negative feelings about past decisions, how you feel about yourself today, like it just can spiral into all kinds of stuff.
Maggie Germano 22:17
Yeah, I totally agree. So if someone is listening to this, and they’re realizing, oh, okay, we really did let our lifestyle kind of inflate and creep up to a point where, you know, we’re not able to save as much for retirement as we would like, or we’re not as we’re not able to set aside enough for these other goals. What do you kind of recommend for taking steps to start reducing expenses or cutting back on things?
Cris Caruso 22:45
Yeah, I think that exercise of taking a look at a certain period, whether it’s, you know, three, six or 12 months of your expenses, and really shining a light on them and asking yourself, what do I love? what truly makes me happy? What brings me joy? and what doesn’t? And figuring out how to reduce? Or is there a way that maybe this thing that really truly does make me happy is it stretches my budget a little bit? And is there a way I can modify it, so that I do what every other month instead of every month, or I do it twice a year instead of four times a year. If it’s something like travel that maybe has a bigger spend, I’m turning off that instant gratification of Oh, I can just put it on my credit card and then figure out how to pay it off. And clipping that too. I’m going to save the money, and then spend the money versus you know, the other way spending it first and then figuring out how to pay it right away?
Maggie Germano 23:51
Yeah. Yeah, I like that. And I like how you said, you know, modifying the thing, not necessarily just having to get rid of it. Because Yeah, that that can make it be like, why am I doing any of this, if I’m like, not allowed to do the things that I enjoy or that that I care about? And so instead of just being like, Alright, cut out everything that’s unnecessary. It’s like, really look at what you’re spending on, see what matters the most to you, what’s bringing you joy, and then start modifying?
Cris Caruso 24:20
Yeah, and there will come some things that you’re like, oh, why am I spending money on this? Or why is this bill so vague? And how can I you know, whittle it down? Are there services I’m not using related to this, you will uncover those things that are easy. It’s like cleaning out your closet. You know, there’s the oh my gosh, I can’t believe I still have that and you just cleared away really quickly and easily. And then there’s those things that they also very strongly are love items. And then there’s the gray in the air in the middle. That gives you room to adjust. Modify.
Maggie Germano 24:57
Mm hmm. Yeah, that’s really good advice. Something I would add to that is like, what is the why of this expense? Because you’ve mentioned keeping up with the Joneses a couple times. And I think when some of us get to a certain point in like our career income, or maybe even the neighborhood we’re living in, or the people we’re spending time with. There’s this idea that we need to be doing the same things that the people around us are doing.
Cris Caruso 25:23
Yeah.
Maggie Germano 25:23
For some reason, the thing that keeps popping into my mind is like, having a landscaper. I don’t know why it’s totally random. And of course, there are plenty of people who are like, no, I really, really like having my lawn look a certain way. And I don’t want to be the one to do it. So yeah, so that’s something I’m going to be spending money on. And it does bring me joy. Yeah. But I’ve also definitely had clients who are paying for that kind of maintenance, because it’s kind of what’s expected of them and then neighborhood and hosting hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month. But it’s not something that they value, it’s something that they are perceived as value. Yeah. And so I think asking yourself, like, why, why am I doing this thing? If if you’re saying, this doesn’t bring me joy, it’s not something I value, but I still feel like I have to do it. Getting to the bottom of that, why I think can be helpful in helping you make a decision around that.
Cris Caruso 26:17
Exactly. Yeah.
Maggie Germano 26:19
And then, if you were working with someone or talking to someone who maybe they’re about to make a career transition, or they’re looking at a big promotion that’s coming in their income is going to be going up significantly, what is some advice you would give them so that they can avoid some of that lifestyle creep? Yeah.
Cris Caruso 26:39
So the first thing that I tell people is that when you’re, if you’re in unemployment situation where you have a retirement plan, and you’re not already maxing that out, the minute your salary goes up, even if it’s just that like cost of living 2% that you get, most years, if you’re using a percentage based contribution, rather than a flat dollar amount, your income went up. So now your retirement contributions just went up. So that’s, you know, one way where you can sort of increase that retirement savings over time. The other thing I ask is, you know, if my clients are already comfortable, in their current situation, I have people sort of make a small tweak in how their direct deposit goes. And a lot of times people put specific amounts into their savings accounts every paycheck, and then they put the rest in their checking account. And if you can flip that, where you’re putting a specific amount into your checking account that you know, covers your bills, and putting the rest and savings over time, you won’t even see that money. And that automatically increases the amount you’re saving. If it you know if you’re not doing that now, that’s an easy way to not grow into that new paycheck.
Maggie Germano 28:04
That’s really good advice. And so it sounds like the theme there is automating things as much as possible, so that you’re not seeing the money, it’s already being taken away, or at least moved to a different place so that you’re not as aware of it being available to spend.
Cris Caruso 28:20
Yeah, like when I work with my clients, I’ll automate that. And I’ll, you know, find out when they’re expected to get that bonus or that paycheck. And I’ll put a reminder in and I’ll reach out to them. And we’ll automate that transfer. But if you’re not working with someone who’s, you know, taking your money and putting it into different places based on your work together, making that switch and putting it right into your savings just doesn’t change the amount that you have to spend. And then you have to actually make that decision to move that money up into your savings, or into your checking account to decide to spend it rather than just mindlessly spending it.
Maggie Germano 28:59
Right. Exactly. Because like we’ve discussed, the more money that’s available to you, the easier it is to spend. Even if you’re used to not having as much money if it’s there for you to swipe and spend it is very easy to do that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um, yeah, and I think the retirement piece is really important too, because I I’m sure most people are not maxing out their retirement and, and I think differentiating some people might think maxing out means meeting the match amount that from their employer, but right maxing actually means contributing as much as the government will allow you so right now with a 401k 19,500 per year so that can sound like an outrageous amount of money to putting in your retirement. But if your income has significantly grown, it is possible and doing that can make sure you’re saving as much as you can for retirement. So you’re not only protecting your future self, but you’re protecting your current self from overspending as well.
Cris Caruso 29:57
Exactly, yeah. Definitely, you can trick yourselves into, you know, doing little things. Absolutely.
Maggie Germano 30:07
Right. And it’s a double positive for you.
Cris Caruso 30:09
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Maggie Germano 30:13
So is there anything we haven’t touched on yet that you recommend to folks just related to income creep, or lifestyle creep, or related to just being thoughtful and mindful about your spending and your future planning, anything we haven’t touched on, you want to make sure folks take away today?
Cris Caruso 30:33
I think reaching out for help. If you’re in a position where you just don’t know what steps to take, I think is really, really valuable. I think there is value in the work that we both do with people around the behavioral stuff, the emotional stuff and the systems related to because it, you’ve got to attack it from multiple layers to create success. And so I think reaching out for help is really important. Especially if you know you have a life event coming up, or like you said, that big promotion and you just don’t know how to handle it. asked for help from a professional, there’s tons of us out there. finding somebody that you trust and connect with is the biggest part. And just get that help so that you can start accelerating financial success.
Maggie Germano 31:30
Yeah, it’s it’s not necessarily they’re not necessary to go at this alone and kind of struggle and suffer. Like, there’s, like you said, there’s so many people out there that want to help.
Cris Caruso 31:40
Yeah. Great.
Maggie Germano 31:42
And is there anything you have going on that you want to promote to listeners anything about your work?
Cris Caruso 31:48
Um, I mean, we’re headed to like, as of today’s recording, we’re headed into the end of the year. I know people are thinking about I know, this is probably actually going to air the beginning of the first quarter of the year. But just starting the new year off or beginning the New Year, especially if we’re going to be coming off of the pandemic or still in the pandemic with a new set of lenses or, you know, look at your finances, being mindful bringing that attention to where your money’s going in what you’re doing. I think that’s definitely the time of year to start thinking, you know, setting you know, as you set those resolutions thinking through, how do you want your money to look and taking those steps to make it happen?
Maggie Germano 32:35
Yeah, I think that’s a really good, important takeaway, and how can folks get in touch with you if they’re interested in working with you?
Cris Caruso 32:42
Yeah, so my team is, um, alchemists Financial Group. Or they can find me through the Ameriprise website if they just search for in my name Cris Caruso. And like I said, we’re based in DC in Silver Spring, Maryland. So and we’re virtual these days. So that matters, I guess a little less. But yeah, you can find me on my team website or right through the Ameriprise website.
Maggie Germano 33:07
Great. And I will link to that in the show notes as well. So people have easy access to you. Right. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat about this today. I think this is a topic that is not always like specifically addressed but it’s something that affects a lot of folks. So I appreciate you sharing your advice.
Cris Caruso 33:24
Well, thanks for having me. Always love chatting with you.
Maggie Germano 33:27
Me too.
Thank you so much for listening to the money circle podcast this week. If you like the conversations we’re having here and you’d like to go even deeper. Join the new money circle community. In this safe intersectional feminist space. We will break down money shame and build community and safety for everyone so that you can find the support you need to gain control over your finances. Visit Maggiegermano.com/mone circle to learn more and to join. If you’d like to get more connected with me, subscribe to my weekly newsletter at Maggie germano.com/subscribe. To learn more about my financial coaching services, my speaking and workshop offerings or just to read my blog visit Maggiegermano.com You can also follow me on instagram and twitter @MaggieGermano. I look forward to hearing from you. Bye bye
